From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0002 05/09/1999 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Fireflies and Dragon Wagons 2: Panther G, Geometric camo scheme 3: DUTCH DAF 4: 1/200 AFV's 5: Airfix SA-2 w/transporter 6: 7th Armoured 1944/45 7: Tsarist Colours -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1999 UK MAFVA Nationals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Hendry, Philip [p.hendry@lancaster.ac.uk] Subject: Fireflies and Dragon Wagons Hi All, I see a few familiar (notorious? ) names are here already! First of all a reply to Ian Hanratty's query about Sherman IIc. >> could you please enquire if anyone could help me with photos and details of the SHERMAN 11C FIREFLY, i am having difficulty finding any clear photos of this vehicle as i would like to build one. I am also after details of what units used them. ian h. I have never seen any photos of a Sherman IIC (M4A1 hull with 17pdr) or a stowage diagram for one and my suspicion is that they did not exist, although the Sherman IC (M4 hull, both welded and composite) does appear. However, perhaps someone can prove me wrong... Listmaster << This isn't exactly a 'me too', but perhaps its a 'me neither'! I've heard a few rumours about this vehicle, but so far every photograph I've seen purporting to show one has, on close examination, turned out to be a hybrid Ic. I too suspect that they didn't actually exist. Not much evidence against their existence, except the June '44 entry in Peter Brown's '21st Army Group Tanks', (see http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/8418/21agt-1.htm ) doesn't show them, so it doesn't look as though any were in service with 21AG around the Normandy landings. The seeming lack of photographic evidence weighs in against them too. However an absence of evidence isn't the same thing as evidence of absence, so this doesn't actually prove much. Secondly a plea for help. Our esteemed listmaster has corrupted me! On the strength of a photo in the Tanks Illustrated book on 'German Tanks 1945 to the Present', he has persuaded me (okay, I didn't actually take much, if any, persuading!) to build a (or the?) British Dragon Wagon. The photo shows the vehicle loading a PazerJaeger 38(t) (what we used to call a Hetzer!), which it turns out is the self-same vehicle that now resides at Bovvy. I'm after more information on the vehicle. Technical info on the DW shouldn't be too much of a problem, an acquaintance in the Netherlands has very kindly offered me a copy of the technical manual, but what I'm after is more info on this particular vehicle. According to Malcolm Bellis' Datafile on 21 AG Organisation and markings a unit called "Mobile Recovery Section, Enemy Vehicles" or some such name (I'm at work and my references are at home), lists a DW as part of their establishment. Anyone know anything about them? Markings? Markings-wise all I have so far, is that the census no. is H5829162 and that there is a star in circle below the co-driver's window. Any and all help gratefully received. Cheers, Phil Hendry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Thorsten L. Wahl [wahl@mannheimer.de] Subject: Panther G, Geometric camo scheme Hi all, Just bought Concord´s Panther book and find it a very interesting and entertaining read - well, at least for a Panther novice like me. Well, I could use your help here: One of the color plates -left side view only!- shows a Panther G (Early) w/ a very geometric, hard-edged camo scheme - the text says it was applied w/ masks and stencils- of yellow, green and brown. Neither the vehicle´s unit nor the scheme´s designation are given, so I´m at a loss for any further info. I´d like to paint my Panther in that scheme, can anybody help or provide clues as to where to look? TIA Thorsten -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: IAN HANRATTY [IAN@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: DUTCH DAF HI BRUCE The following TANKETTE'S have articles on DUTCH DAF'S. T29/6 M38 PANTSERWAGEN 6X4 6ton ARMOURED CAR. article. T4/5 DAF PANTSERWAGEN ARMOURED CAR. 1/76th scale plan. T29/4 M36 PANTSERWAGEN 6X4 6ton ARMOURED CAR 1/76th scale plan and article. T29/5 M38 PANTSERWAGEN 1937, 1/76th scale plan and article. T13/3 M39 PANTSERWAGEN, 1/76th scale plan and article. T17/3 M39 PANTSERWAGEN, 1/76th scale plan and article. T25/1 M39 PANTSERWAGEN TYPE 3,1/76th scale plan and article. INFO from ROB'S TANKETTE INDEX, FILE. If my memory serves me correctly there was a article in ARMY AND NAVY MODELWORLD, or MILITARY MODELLING. I have had a look through my collection of magazines but I am unable to locate the article at the moment, if I find it I will let you know. I also seem to recall a 1/35TH scale model produced in resin, possibly by Commanders Models??? Sorry I cannot be of any more help. The Tankette index file to which Ian refers is an Excel v5 spreadsheet of almost all the articles that have appeared in Tankette over the last 34 years. It was originated by a chap in Sheffield called John Armatys and subsequently expanded by muggins. It is updated every time a new issue appears and emailed to anyone who wishes to receive it. Listmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: IAN HANRATTY [IAN@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Caunter scheme HI ALL While watching a program about the war in the desert, at the time of the BATTLE OF EL ALAMEIN, the film was very good and clear, the problem is that they showed the following vehicles in the CAUNTER scheme, A9, A10, A13, MATILDA, STUARTS, VICKERS LIGHT TANKS. The paint is quite fresh looking, I was under the impression that the CAUNTER scheme was phased out fairly quickly after the 1940 / 41 campaign. Also on the same the same film was footage of a mixture of BRITISH TANK TRANSPORTERS, (LIKE THE PHOTO IN WITH PENTANTS FLYING BOOK), showing various types carrying a vast assortment of tanks. I am wondering if anyone was able to tape the program or if anyone could send me in the correct direction to find the original footage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: IAN HANRATTY [IAN@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: British M3 Stuarts HI ROB At last years MAFVA nats in sunny WALES, you had on display a series of M3 STUART LIGHT TANKS, (if memory serves me correctly, with interior details). What I am after is if I use the MATCHBOX KIT of THE STUART, While I need to alter the turret to build a BRITISH crewed vehicle from the WESTERN DESERT campaigns. or if I do need to correct the turret or kit is there any conversion sets available, that are worth buying??? or can you point me in the direction of any decent modelling articles / plans. CHEERS IAN H Sunny? You must have gone to a different Wales to the one I remember from all those courses there. William Ward and I are both working on 1/76 Stuarts with interior detail. I think his was based on the Steve Zaloga article in Military Modelling a couple of years ago whereas mine was based on drawings from the vehicle handbooks and such photographs as I could get of the Bovington M3 Hybrid. We are both building M3A1s (with turret baskets) and mine is a NW Europe vehicle but the ones used in the desert were, as far as I know, either M3s or M3 Hybrids (M3 hull but M3A1 type turret). The kit provides a rivetted M3 turret (which could be converted to a welded M3 turret by removing the rivets) and an M3A1 turret of 06/1942 (which could be used for an M3 Hybrid). The only new one you would need would be for the welded turret M3 of 03/1941, of the same design (but not size) as the undersized Tamiya affair. I have never seen a kit of such a turret so unless you fancy converting that (fill the hatch apertures and add a new cupola to the kit's M3A1 version), I would tend to stick with one of the other three you can make from the kit version. Listmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ron and Louise Crawford [rlcraw@together.net] Subject: 1/200 AFVs I would like to make contact with other enthusiasts who build or collect AFVs and figures in 1/200 scale. For the benefit of readers unfamiliar with 1/200 scale, the first AFV and vehicle ranges were done by Wiking in Germany and Pilot in Denmark in the mid-1930's. The Wikings became the standard training and recognition models for the German forces in WWII. In the modern era large ranges have been offered by Skytrex in the UK, Mercator in Germany, and Hai and Trident in Austria. Cottage industry producers appear to be numerous. We at HBM have even brought out a few ourselves. 1/200 scale has become popular as a scale for active use by military and recreational wargamers. The models are large enough to be realistic and to be handled and stored without special precautions. At the same time they permit skirmish (COY and smaller) events to be represented on a sand table or large tabletop. The size of the models and the enormous range of available choices also make them ideal for collectors. The entire history of AFVs can be displayed in the space of that ugly painting your aunt insisted you take from her basement. Ron Crawford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Douglas Bauer [dbauer@access1.net] Subject: Airfix SA-2 w/transporter Hello....at last, a list for armor modellers!! Thanks, Robert. I had heard several months ago that Airfix (or someone) was going to re-issue their 1:72 scale SA-2 guided missile and launcher. Has anyone heard anything to substantiate that rumor? I'm interested in 1:72 scale Soviet SP missile launchers (I scratchbuild them) and would like to correspond with think.tank members of the same mind set. Thanks, Doug Bauer dbauer@access1.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Malcolm Waite [mw99@rapid.co.uk] Subject: 7th Armoured 1944/45 Dear All I'm trying to do a series of models of UK 7th Armoured Division vehicles in the 1944-45 period in North West Europe I know the Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment, 8th Hussars, was equipped with Cromwells. Can anybody confirm that the Armoured Brigade (22nd) was also equipped with Cromwells? Malcolm N. Waite Liverpool UK 22AB was definitely a Cromwell unit, although it did use 17pdr Shermans (mainly VCs as far as I have seen) as well. 8H was generally used as a fourth armoured regiment (having the same equipment as the other three), although instead of 17pdr Shermans, it used Challengers once they became available. Dan Taylor's book on Villers Bocage, published by After the Battle, has a good selection of photographs of 4CLY vehicles which show details of stowage and markings etc., as well as WD census numbers. I can also recommend the article by Harley, Fletcher and Church in Tankette Vol.14 No.5 on the Cromwell/Centaur series, which has a number of scale plans and details of which marks, hull types and WD numbers were used together. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: Tsarist Colours Dear Think-Tankers I'm working on a) some WW1 stuff and b) some notes for Tankette on WW1 colours. Does anyone have any hard references - ideally with sources in official documentation or extant examples - to the colours used on Russian AFVs and particularly artillery during WW1? I've heard that the dark green (in WW2 4BO) used in the Great Patriotic War went back a long way, and b&w photos suggest a dark tone, but I've seen only some anecdotal stuff on the WW1 colour/colours. Mike Cooper Reading UK (on SMML it is traditional to put a note about the weather - its baking here today (Friday 3 September)) Mike Cooper, EU Specialist Reading Reference Library Abbey Square Reading RG1 3BQ Tel: 0118 901 5955/56 Fax: 0118 9015954/5959 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Robert Lockie [rlockie@hfs.co.uk] Subject: 1999 UK MAFVA Nationals This year's UK Nationals are being hosted by the London branch although the venue has changed from that originally advertised. The new venue is approximately 8-10 miles from the original. The show opens at 1030 on Saturday 11th September 1999 and the location details are as follows: Bentley Wood High School Clamp Hill Stanmore Middlesex Clamp Hill is off the A410 Uxbridge Road and the nearest motorway junction is Junction 4 of the M1. We have endeavoured to communicate the change of venue to as many people as possible but please pass the word around to those with whom you come into contact, as we may miss some people. It is intended that signage will be displayed at the old venue on the day of the show to steer attendees who have missed the announcement to the new location. Please contact me should you have any queries. Alternatively, contact Peter Bailey on (01474) 536232 or at 8 Vicarage Drive, Northfleet, Kent, DA11 9HA, enclosing a stamped SAE should you require a written response. We look forward to seeing as many of you as possible on 11th September. Robert Lockie London MAFVA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://members.wbs.net/homepages/m/a/f/mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume