From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0004 18/09/1999 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Some thoughts on finishing 2: ONTOS 3: Sherman IIC Firefly 4: WW1 Russian Colours 5: Regunned StuG III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Next week's issue 2: Latest Tamiya release -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Robert A. Clifton, R.A. [rclifton@optonline.net] Subject: Some thoughts on finishing Kelvin Mok made same pretty interesting comments last issue regarding the different methods of finishing a model. I think part of the problem might stem two different sources. First, the judges. If a judge looks at a piece that is obviously very "clean," it is his responsibility to view the model from that perspective. I cannot really speak to the topic from another club's point of view, but under AMPS rules, a judge CAN'T view a model any way but the way it is presented. Admittedly, this is no easy task, as our own ideas and attitudes have a tendency to influence our opinions on certain things. However, there really is no reason why EVERY judge (AMPS or otherwise) can't view the piece the way it was intended. If a judge can't see a model for what it is (as opposed to what he wants it to be), he shouldn't be judging. The second part of the problem might be with the modeler himself. Just because a vehicle has not been in the field, does not give the modeler the Option of not finishing the model. We can all acknowledge that dry brushing is about the best technique used today to pick out details. Then why would any modeler who wishes to show his model "as built" not dry brush it? Dry brushing is not only used to show wear, it is used to pick out detail. It is the current line of thinking that a model that is not dry brushed is not completed. Too often today, I see models that simply are not completed. The creators claim that the vehicle is "factory finished" but the finish covers up the best details of the model! Now, the writer might claim, "Hey! I chose not to dry brush this kit because it is what I like!" This is very valid. However, just like gymnastics, court and fashion, the current trend is what is used to judge. The modeler has every right to challenge that system by doing something different, but he faces the wrath of the judges if the end result doesn't blow everyone away. For example, when Verlinden first dry brushed at a show, it was considered remarkable and changed the way we all do things. If the modeler can't come up with something that is new and exciting, he had better stick to the tried and true methods, like them or not if he wishes to compete. There is something to be said for vehicles that are finished "as new." They add an opposite view of something that we usually view in it's worst state. However, I think we should remember that while modeling techniques may be somewhat different between the two genres, they are not completely opposite. Comments? Robert A. Clifton, R.A. Assitant Chief Judge AMPS '2000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Douglas Bauer [dbauer@access1.net] Subject: ONTOS I'm researching and collecting info on the USMC ONTOS (VietNam-era), I plan on scratchbuilding one.... and I believe it carried six 106mm recoilless rifles. Unfortunately, I'm short on pictorial references for the armament. There's one of the vehicles at the local USMC Reserve base, but the guns were replaced with lengths of PVC pipe. Any reference ideas or pics will be greatly appreciated Thanks, Doug Bauer dbauer@access1.net In 1/35 scale, there is a 106mm in one of the DML M274 Mule kits and also one available from Skybow to accompany an M38A1 jeep. In the UK, the latter are available from Accurate Armour among others. I have a few USMC official photographs of the Ontos taken in SVN but I can also recommend Vietnam Tracks and Tank War Vietnam (both by Simon Dunstan) and one of the Squadron Signal books by Jim Mesko has some photos, I think. Listmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Tony Edwards [tones@mail.suncity.com.au] Subject: Sherman IIC Firefly British nomenclature for their AFVs in WW II was much the same as for their Aircraft, i.e. the letters after the mark number (A, B, C) refer to its armament mix. For example the Spitfire I C was just a plain Spitfire with the cannon armed wings fitted (I think that's what C was in that case). In the case of Shermans, C designated that the armament was the 17 Pdr AT gun, there were also designations for 76mm, 105mm, etc (though I'm afraid that the other designations escape me at the moment). The mark number refers to the type of Sherman in question, Sherman I = M4 Sherman, Sherman II = M4A1, Sherman III = M4A2, Sherman IV = M4A3 and obviously Sherman V = M4A4. Therefore, the Sherman IIC Firefly was a cast hulled M4A1 with the 17 Pdr AT gun fitted... Hope this helps... I still don't believe that it existed though By the way, the suffix 'A' was for 76mm and 'B' for 105mm. 75mm, being the standard fit, was not indicated separately. Listmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: WW1 Russian Colours Dear All Thanks to Nick Balmer for his very helpful notes - Nick, I'll mail you off-list for a chat about this. Couple of observations 1. Apple Green - this makes a lot of sense, and tallies with some evidence in Tankette quoting a "salad green". However, at the risk of being pedantic, what's the evidence for this? For this to work we must be talking a richer deeper green that I'm thinking of when I hear Apple Green, say a medium brunswick green? 2. British Tanks - the base tone from end of 1916 on was indeed a chocolate brown, probably not unlike the WW2 Standard Camouflage Colour 2. Green is a creature of the 1920s, and incorrect inference from restored examples. The evidence for this is a. Models made at the time b. The MkV and Whippet at the Army Museum in Belgium, which haven't been painted since and c. contemporary descriptions. I've gone through this in IPMS Mag, and will be doing so in Tankette. British tanks in Russian service - I have the superb book Nick mentions - do seem to have been this tone originally (they show factory finish WD numbers and ID stripes). However they do show up repainted with at least one tone, sometimes two over the base coat. I've no way of telling what the colours were, other than to remark that the dark tone was really dark. I'd like to know what led the book's illustrators to settle on greens? 3. RNAS Cars - I've never seen the evidence for Locker Lampson's cars being a brown. The RNAS certainly used a Khaki Green, and certainly used a light grey, but again, I wonder why people have concluded that Locker Lampson used a brown, unless by 1916 the RNAS were following Army models on tanks. Softskins and artillery at the time were almost certainly green. Hope this helps Mike Cooper Mike Cooper, EU Specialist Reading Reference Library Abbey Square Reading RG1 3BQ Tel: 0118 901 5955/56 Fax: 0118 9015954/5959 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Listmaster Subject: Regunned StuG III I seem to recall seeing a photo of an early StuG III (short 7.5cm) which had been rearmed with a long 7.5cm gun in some publication. Having just acquired a cheap StuG III C/D and given that the grey stuff is just too boring, I considered converting it to this upgunned version. I have been told of two photos, one of which shows the mantlet to be a late style topfblende but can anyone point me to the offending book? It might enable me to finish my second model in three years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Next week's issue I will be at Euromilitaire representing MAFVA next weekend, so the next edition should go out on the evening of Sunday26th September. This is all assuming that I am in a fit state to compile it after a couple of nights of the usual prayer and fasting that seems to be an inevitable accompaniment to such weekends. Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Listmaster Subject: Latest Tamiya release Hobby Link Japan's website is showing a Tamiya Sdkfz 9 half track at ¥5,300 (about £30 sterling). It seems that they are busy duplicating Maurice Des's range in plastic, what with the Dragon Wagon as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume