From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol 0011 06/11/1999 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Irish Armour 2: Tank tracks 3: 1/35 shells for 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 4: Painting tank tracks 5: Artillery 6: M4A2 rear hull 7: WW2 German armoured half-track interior colours 8: Russian Colours -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Bounced messages -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Harris [john@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: Irish Armour Hello one and all, I found this URL on AFV News, http://www.connect.ie/users/bhalligan/index.htm which seems to be a very comprehensive site, did you know the Irish used M113s in UN duties in the Belgian Congo? Thanks John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: MALCOLM IRESON [ireson@carltons36.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Tank tracks As with most things, you tend to find the best way to do something that best suits you, or makes your life easier, individual track links are no different. I find that depending on what tank you are making, the way to tackle this problem changes. Being that I only make German WWII armour, my outlook will probably be a bit blinkered! But each to his own. One way of dealing with these is to leave off the outer road wheels, for ease of painting both, the inside of the wheels, and most, if not all of the inside of the tracks. With length and link tracks, the (my) method is a bit different, by heating these up slightly, either in hot water, hot hair dryer, or with resin length + link, in the micro-wave, these can be bent to shape, mind you, you have to be very careful doing it this way. I've had to replace several sets of tracks with more expensive options before now, and no doubt will again! The main advantage length + link have over individual track links is by doing it this way they can be painted off the tank, which in turn allows you to paint the insides or inner row of wheels. Sounds complicated, but with a bit of practice, and lots of patience, it works for me. I hope you can understand what I'm going on about, and this helps you out. All the best, good luck Malcolm Ireson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Listmaster Subject: 1/35 shells for 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 I am building the Dragon Sdkfz 250/8 with the short 7.5cm gun and find that the kit does not include any shells for the beast. My spares box is bare as this is generally an early war weapon and that era is poorly represented in my collection. Can anyone point me towards a source for them? Thanks Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: William Swan [wswan@ix.netcom.com] Subject: Painting tank tracks I use several different methods but the one I really like is to use the very soft oil pastels in mud colors to smear a very convincing looking mud on the links, (after assembly, of course). It really looks just like mud and can be smeared on the "steel" surfaces as well. William Swan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: Artillery Dear All As part of an ongoing research and modelling project I'm trying to collect scale drawings of WW1 artillery. So far the Brits are fairly well attended too, with most main types covered. The real blanks are: France - Almost any piece other than the 75, the later 155 Howitzer and the little Puteaux 37mm. Austria-Hungary - Apart from the Skoda 42cm pieces I've practically nothing, although some mountain guns are covered in German material and other WW2 sources. Germany - There is a big gap between 10.5cm and 21cm! In other words no good drawings of 15cm pieces or the earlier 12cm pieces. Russian - Virtually all indigenous pieces are "missing", although as French gaps fill so will these. Italy - virtually 100% missing. So, if you have any scale drawings for practically any WW1 artillery piece - especially those noted please contact me on or off list. If you have drawings, I would like to copy them, and will of course refund any cost involved. In some cases I'm trying to work from scalable photos, and when I come up with something concrete I plan to send the results to Tankette. I plan to tackle the IWM library for handbooks, and gain will pass on results. Mike Cooper Mike Cooper, EU Specialist Reading Reference Library Abbey Square Reading RG1 3BQ Tel: 0118 901 5955/56 Fax: 0118 9015954/5959 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: lloydstaples [lloydstaples@lloydstaples.screaming.net] Subject: M4A2 rear hull I've just got hold of the Tank Workshop M4A2 hull, ready to make one in Soviet service, and have hit upon a completely unexpected problem. My huge library seems to contain no pictures or plans of the rear hull underneath the overhang, i.e. the lower rear plate in the area of the exhaust pipes, and exhaust deflector grill. All my M4A2 photos seem to have USMC wading trunking fitted. The TW parts include curved plates, exhaust units, and the complex grating, but no indication how to locate these. I have dozens of plans and photos of M4 and M4A3 hulls, but nothing much on the M4A2. Can anyone help??? I could do with sketches, plans or photos. Please???!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Listmaster Subject: WW2 German armoured half-track interior colours I had always assumed that, being open-topped, the Sdkfz 250 and 251 would have been painted the same colour inside as out (i.e. dunkelgrau up to 1943 and dunkelgelb thereafter). However, I have been shown a printout form a website on the 251 (now disappeared apparently) which states that the interior of the driver's compartment in that vehicle was painted white. This makes a lot of sense, in that it would not compromise camouflage and as anyone who has scrabbled around in the footwells of a car will know, painting a semi-enclosed space in a dark colour is a less than sensible move. However, what I am wondering is whether this practice (assuming it to be correct) was continued after the change to dunkelgelb as a base colour in 1943. Since I am actually making progress with my two Dragon 250 neu art, the prospect of having to apply paint is looming and I don't want to have to pull the thing apart to repaint it later. Anyone help/know any sources/have any photos etc.? Robert Since I asked around about this, Chris Lloyd-Staples sent me the following message: For example, page 364 of Wenn Alle Brude Schweigen shows a 251 driver with the area around him the same tone as his skin, and much darker than a note pinned above his head. Although a black and white photo, I take this as good evidence that the interior is dunkelgelb around the driver, and not white. As for early grey vehicles, on page 12 of the Squadron book, there is a photo looking very 'white', even the seat backs, but not as white as the speedo. However, the photo on page 8 of the same book looks the same colour as the exterior. I think that if they were painted white on grey vehicles, the white would only extend back to the frame flange. I have now looked at both my copy of Sqn Signal 251 in Action and the Ryton book on the 250 and 251 (Schutzenpanzer) and am inclining to the same view, that the dunkelgelb vehicles were painted dunkelgelb throughout and that white was only used with the dunkelgrau scheme. Unless, of course, anyone has any different information…… Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Steven Guy. [sexton@overkill82.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Russian Colours Mike Cooper was talking about Russian colours and the FS numbers. I have a book from Russia that has this very subject included in it. Here it is; "There was much speculation in the Western sources about the colour of Russian armour. Names like "Russian Olive" and "Russian Green" are frequently used, but provide little information about the colour itself. In the beginning of the thirties the main colour for all Soviet military equipment (including armour and aircraft) was called B3. Until now we are not able to find an actual sample of this paint in the archives though it was very similar to 4BO introduced later. The 4BO was introduced around 1938 and became the main army colour. From this time until the end of world war two most Soviet vehicles, artillery systems and other military equipment was painted this way. An actual sample of this paint was found in the archives and compares to FS595 chips so we can say that the correct FS match for 4BO is FS59534102. Of course there are exceptions to this rule but the absolute majority of Soviet combat vehicles were painted 4BO. Needless to say, we talk about freshly painted vehicles as they rolled off the production line. The allowances for scale effect and weathering are up to you." This extract was taken from Amarda No.5 covering Soviet tank camouflage and markings 1930-1945. I hope this helps. Best wishes, Steve Guy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Bounced messages Can anyone assist with current email addresses for Alastair Morton, John Hearne or Andre Brito, from all of whom I have had messages undelivered? Thanks Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume