From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0013 20/11/1999 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Tank Tracks 2: Ram Kangaroo 3: Steel Masters book 4: German paint schemes, and the use of primer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Other newsgroups -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Paul Roberts [proberts@mail.tamcotec.com] Subject: Tank Tracks > The reason for all this work is because metal tracks tend to 1) wear > off their primer coats (if they were even applied) very quickly and > 2) Metal tracks rust quickly (from some German accounts during WWII > even as quickly as overnight), and only the contacting faces were > worn back to bare metal. Be careful here, guys. Take a look at the tracks you are modelling (if you can find a good view) as certain metal alloys used for tracks didn't rust at all! The manganese steel tracks on the Valentine at Camp Borden are as fresh as the day they were installed, some 55+ years ago. There isn't a hint of rust anywhere, not even at the joints or under the road wheels (where even some commercial stainless steels would show rust. Some manganese steels rust and some high manganese steels don't. Certainly, if you aren't sure, treat them as rusty, but if you know they didn't then show it on the model and note it on any judging sheets! The Borden Valentine's tracks are a dull steel colour, sort of a slightly warm metallic grey (not metal flake!). Paul Roberts Paul Roberts | Accuracy Scale Tech Distributing | is our Measure of Scale Model Builders | Quality proberts@tamcotec.com Visit our home page http://www.tamcotec.com/proberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Christopher Hughes [Cjm.Hughes@btinternet.com] Subject: Ram Kangaroo May I put out a plea in Think Tank? I would like to build a Ram Kangaroo, preferably in 1/72 or 1/76 scale. I seem to remember hearing of a vacform hull, also of a resin kit. Any pointers would be appreciated. regards, Chris Hughes I recall a vacform hull and turret for a Ram from, I think, Raretanks but it was many years ago and I suspect pretty crude by current standards. However, Cromwell Models does a Ram Mk.II gun tank and a Ram Badger in 1/76 resin, which could be suitable if you grind out the hull (the gun tank may be a better starting point as the Badger probably has the turret cover plate cast as part of the hull. Innards are similar to a radial-engined Sherman but reversed as the driver sits on the right. I have heard of seats being fitted but never seen a photograph and the official stowage sketches do not show any, so they may have been a local fitting. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: MALCOLM IRESON [ireson@carltons36.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Steel Masters book I recently managed to pick up a soft back book called "Steel Masters" from a little second hand book shop, now because the book is all in Polish, I managed to get it for £1.50!!! While at the Nationals this year, I saw the same book, brand new for £10.50. What I would like to know is does anybody know who imports this (magazine) into the UK as it looks like it may come out monthly/quarterly etc, and if this issue is anything to go by, it looks like a great series of a magazine. With thanks. Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Tony Edwards [tones@mail.suncity.com.au] Subject: German paint schemes, and the use of primer One final question - how widespread was the late war German practice of leaving the base colour as red oxide primer? Was it just the heavy AFVs or others as well? I suspect that the insides of the stowage bins, engine bay etc. might well have been left in primer but have no confirmation. Well, an OKH order dated October 31 1944 stipulated that the base colour for ALL AFVs be the red-oxide primer (RAL 8012), with the dunkelgelb and dunkelgrun/olivgrun be applied as secondaries over this. The order also stipulated that the camouflage patterns be hard-edged. It also appears that the secondary colours were applied in VERY light coats, looks like the USAF bombing campaign took out a paint factory or 3 :). An order dated 30 November 1944 revoked the previous order and set the base colours at dunkelgrun, with the dunkelgelb (RAL 7028) and the original rotbraun (RAL 8017) being used as the secondaries, in turn this order was revoked and the paint order went back to the original scheme of the dunkelgelb primary. The engine compartment was normally left in the primer coat, however an example of it being painted in the grey/green colour has been seen (an early Tiger I), but this appears to be the exception, rather than the rule. Sheet metal storage boxes apparently delivered painted inside and out with a (nearly) matt black, after being bolted in place, these would obviously have been oversprayed with the base colours, however if they had lids, then they may have retained the black base colour, although some open bins have been observed with the grey/green (RAL 7033?). Most of this info I picked up online, but I've only included details from sites whose authors are reliable :) Refs are below... (Refs: Paul Owen, Tracklink; David Goyra, Hilary Doyle (via David Goyra). Cya Tones. By 'storage boxes', do you mean the lockers which are part of the vehicle sides, or the internal ones? It seems surprising that those which are an integral part of the vehicle would be painted an entirely different colour - why bother? On the other hand, I can understand separate boxes (e.g. for ammunition, grenades etc.) being a different colour. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Other newsgroups Without wishing to appear traitorous, I confess to using other net resources for research as well (from the names I see there, evidently I am not the only one of our number to do so….) and have recently stumbled across the particularly impressive Missing Links site at http://www.missing-lynx.com/ There are several newsgroups, for WW2 German, WW2 Allied, Modern and others and although they are online as opposed to emailed, I was impressed to see that when someone posts a response to your message, an email is automatically sent to tell you of the fact. Since this saves frequent checking, it seems like an excellent idea and I can recommend having a look. The site seems to be pretty free of the 'which is the prettiest tank?' type tosh with which the otherwise good AFV News site seems to be filled from time to time, so let's hope it stays that way. Interestingly, they seem to be debating much the same stuff that we are (re-gunned StuGs, half-track interiors, British colours and 250 neu art all spring to mind. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume