From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol. 0015 04/12/1999 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Priest Kangaroos 2: Ram tank 3: Tiger tank website 4: Ram tank 5: Portable bridging equipment 6: Borgward BIV A track 7: BIV tracks 8: Colours -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Tankette indices to 34/6 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Priest Kangaroos I have been reading Ken Tout's book 'A Fine Night for Tanks' recently and there is a lengthy section about Operation Totalize in August 1944. This was the first large-scale operation in which the Allies used tracked APCs (made from degunned M7 Priest HMCs) to move infantry into action and all the accounts I have read previously suggested that these were ex-21 Army Group vehicles made available by the conversion of the SP field regiments to Sextons. This was originally to aid ammunition commonality between the SP and towed regiments but a by-product was the freeing up of the M7 hulls. However, Tout states that the vehicles were actually from US stocks and were disused guns dating back to D-Day, when they had been used in the assault landings. 72 vehicles were taken over on 31 July and the RCEME was given a week to convert them. All needed a full engine overhaul and the guns were removed in such a way as to be capable of refitting later if required. The engineers (both Canadian and British) worked extremely long hours (15 hours minimum) to complete the work, which did not actually start until 2 August. Due to a lack of suitable armour, the converters used naval plating from beach wrecks in a sandwich with sand in between. This was used to fill up any gaps, of which the main one would be the aperture for the 105mm. In the event, all 72 were completed, of which half carried Canadian infantry and the balance Scottish units. Can anyone confirm the accuracy of this account from other sources? Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Paul Roberts [proberts@mail.tamcotec.com] Subject: Ram tank Does anyone have any details of the Ram in action? I have an article from the old Militaria mag I could copy for you if you are interested. Ram, in action? What do you want to know? The Ram I & II gun tanks never saw action, just training in England before the invasion. The Ram OPs & Command tanks saw plenty of action with the UK & Cdn. SP arty reg'ts & some of the Cdn Armoured Reg'ts respectively. The ARV Is & IIs were used on the continent as well. We all know how useful the Ram Kangaroos were in service with the 1st Cdn APC reg't & the Brit 49th RTR (I think). Some Kangaroos were armed with the Wasp IIC flamethrower equipment and called "Badgers". The first of these went into battle with the Lake Superior Reg't and later Badgers had a plate bolted over the open turret ring and the auxiliary MG turret from early Rams put into the middle of the plate as a cupola for the commander and a reinstatement of a secondary weapon after the hull MG was removed for the flamethrower. Ram ammunition carriers & Gun Towers also saw action in NW Europe. Do you need more specific info? Let me know. Paul Paul Roberts | Accuracy Scale Tech Distributing | is our Measure of Scale Model Builders | Quality proberts@tamcotec.com Visit our home page http://www.tamcotec.com/proberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: MALCOLM IRESON [ireson@carltons36.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Tiger tank website I have received an e-mail from Mr. David Butt at the Bovington tank museum, informing me that they are about to open a web site all about their Tiger tank. I haven't looked at it yet, I will do after I send this. The website addresses of the Tank Museum and Tiger are as follows- www.tankmuseum.co.uk www.tiger-tank.com I`m off to have a look, All the best Malcolm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bradford Chaucer [BChaucer@ix.netcom.com] Subject: Ram tank What is the significance of the RAM designation? How does a RAM version differ from the basic model?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer BChaucer@ix.netcom.com Ram is, as far as I know, just the noun for a male sheep. There is a wildlife theme for Canadian vehicles (Grizzly, Lynx, Fox etc.) so I have always assumed it to be nothing more than that. However, no doubt one of our Canadian subscribers can offer a better answer….. As I remember, the principal external differences from the M4A1 are the CDP track and associated sprocket (also seen on Sextons until replaced by Sherman types) and the broad notch in the centre of the extreme rear of the engine deck. The hulls were cast in the USA by General Steel Castings (hence the 'G' casting mark on the glacis) as Canada apparently lacked the facilities to cast such large parts, then assembled locally. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Listmaster Subject: Portable bridging equipment A recent enquiry about the organisation of Gds Armd Div prompted me to look out some photographs of the Division's vehicles in NW Europe. While doing so, I came across several of 2 Household Cavalry Regt, which reminded me of an unsolved query relating to portable bridges. These were sometimes carried by both Staghounds and AEC armoured cars, longitudinally over the mudguards on each side. However, that is the only place I have seen them. I have never seen any dimensions, plans or official designations, although they must have been a standard design as they look the same each time. My question is, does anyone have any more information on them? Were they an RE equipment or fabricated in theatre? Are there any original drawings or dimensions? Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Tony Edwards [tones@mail.suncity.com.au] Subject: Borgward BIV A track Can anyone confirm the suspicions of a couple of us that Dragon has made a major goof on the track for the BIV? The kit supplies a two part affair resembling the early rubber block style (like most German half-tracks) but with very odd-looking blocks that appear to be of steel. Although steel was used for the BIVC track, the design was a skeleton type, entirely unlike that of the earlier versions. If Dragon has boobed, it becomes rather clear why Kasten makes a rubber block version…… Still, it makes the BIV expensive for such a small vehicle. Hi, in Encyclopaedia of German Tanks of World War II (revised ed.) and also in German Tanks of World War II in Action (George Forty, Arms and Armour Press), the photos seem to indicate that both types were used, and the write-up in Encyclopaedia mentions the following about the tracks... "During the Ausf B production, the dry pin steel track was introduced". I would guess that the German's would have retrofitted the new tracks during refits. I'm by no means an expert, but it certainly appears that both could/would have been used. Hope this helps... Cya Tones. ICQ UIN: 1114918 tones@suncity.com.au stug@bigfoot.com stugiiiausfg@icqmail.com As it happens, I picked up a copy of the revised edition of the Chamberlain & Doyle tome at a very acceptable price at the weekend (even the author was pretty unimpressed with the revised edition, as it failed to include most of the revisions he wanted, so I had declined to buy one when it came out) so have consulted it. There were indeed two types of track, an early rubber block one and a later all steel skeleton type. Both are clearly shown in the photographs. Unfortunately, Dragon seems to have made up its own design based on the early one but with a wholly fictional metal pad. Short of paying out the same amount as the kit for the Kasten set, the only option would seem to be to make a new pad to fit the Dragon link (probably converted from one of the Dragon pads so that it fits) and cast up the rest in resin. At least there aren't too many of them. I intend to have a bash at this so will let you know how I get on…… Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Angus Creighton [guscreighton@shedlife01.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: BIV tracks Hi Robert, Just a quick note to say that I received the Kasten BIV tracks we spoke about recently. The base is very similar to the Dragon offering, albeit more refined and already 'drilled out', and so they should be for the price. The pads on the other-hand are exactly what you would expect of a miniature 251 track. Comparison with the reference photo's we spoke about shows that they are spot on, and also highlights just how far Dragon appear to have missed the mark. I can't say they are value for money, being near the same price as the Dragon kit, but they certainly add the finishing touch to an otherwise acceptable model. Speak to you again soon no doubt. Angus Creighton. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: Colours Dear All Greetings from, er...sunny..Reading Three things 1. Thanks to Mike Starmer a briefing note on British WW2 colours will shortly be going onto the MAFVA webpages. I've got to sort out some corrections to my notes that he's asked for, and then I'll mail them off to Frank Gould. Watch that space. 2. I'm working on a generic and basic briefing note on the main tones in use by most countries during WW2. I've promised this to frank too, and it'll be going up to IPMS mag. A piece/pieces on WW1 colours is/are on their way to Spike for Tankette. 3. Stemming from 2... Does anyone have any primary, or sourced secondary, information on the green used on French vehicles, artillery etc. Steve Zaloga in Blitzkrieg quotes it as a dark green, illustrating a medium-dark olive green. Photos suggest a medium-dark colour, with some vehicles appearing very dark. However, I seem to recall descriptions of a much more medium tone. Anyone shed any light on this? Second, although I have Italian hobby paint references for Italian colours, does anyone have anything from primary/sourced secondary sources on the Grey-green and brick-red base tomes used 1930s-40s (For that matter does anyone know what the Italians were using as a base tone in WW1?). Ideally what I'd like would be: "In December 1930 the Ruritanian Ministry of defence ordered that all tanks, guns and military vehicles were to be painted in a base tone known as Rur5678 Sky Blue-Pink (State decree 5634 of 23/12/30)" The idea is that by taking this route we stand a chance of breaking away from hearsay - it is basically the Mike Starmer approach. If I use anything you give me it will be fully acknowledged. Yours in anticipation Mike Cooper Alleged Model maker and sometime librarian. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Tankette indices to 34/6 The latest update to the Tankette (MAFVA journal - email mafvahq@aol.com for details of back issue availability and subscription rates) indices is now available. The format is as an MS Excel 5 file of some 2,200 lines and if you are not already on the mailing list and would like to be added, please contact me at rlockie@hfs.co.uk for a copy. The file is updated with every new issue and sent out in self-extracting zip form. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume