From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol. 0019 08/01/2000 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: CVR (T)s in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict 2: Israeli Super Sherman + Dragon Wagon? 3: ZSU-23-4s in the UK 4: Diorama Bases / Alternative Uses 5: Military Modelling magazine indices project 6: Sherman ARV Mk.II 7: Brit Camo and a Canadian Query 8: RMASG colour schemes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Kits for sale 2: Tankette indices to 35/1 3: UK Military Modelling 2000 web site -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Well, we seem to have come successfully through the Y2K 'opportunity' (if you are an IT consultant, anyway) so welcome to the last year of the 20th Century. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far and I hope you are finding it useful. The value of this sort of enterprise is wholly down to the postings from subscribers, so you are the people who make it all work. And sorry - I seem to have practically taken over this issue…….. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: CVR (T)s in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict I am intending to build a CVR (T), probably a Scorpion, as one of the vehicles used by the two troops of B Sqn, the Blues and Royals in the South Atlantic during Operation Corporate in 1982. The vehicles used at that time were of an older configuration than the current plastic kits represent but it is noticeable that they were comparatively little photographed at the time. I have gathered those I can, which tell me that stowage variations included two long CVR (T) hull bins on the LHS, three ammunition boxes on the front above the lights, a KERR, cam net round the turret, cover over the recoil slide for the 30mm, shallow bin on hull rear with spare wheel half and sprocket ring attached, jerrican rack (probably for plastic water canister) on LHS of original style turret rear bin and four or five spare track links on the LHS turret side below a set of web pouches. Unfortunately most of this is from Scimitars, as I have seen only one Scorpion photo (23A, on p19 of the Foss and Dunstan book in the New Vanguard series), which shows only the front. There were only two Scorpions sent (along with four Scimitars and a Samson, although some sources claim four Scorpions and two Scimitars), so a representative vehicle would seem to be out, and getting the registration correct is also important. Can anyone help? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Harris [john@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: Israeli Super Sherman + Dragon Wagon? Malcolm, I agree with the 'editors' comments, every source seems to state that the 'Dragon Wagon' was not used by the IDF, most appear to have been bought up by haulage firms in Europe. The number that survive is testament to their wide use in Europe (especially France) as breakdown (wrecker to our US cousins). For a radical conversion, and not strictly military, were the DWs used by "Wynn's" (the heavy haulage company), the armoured cabs were removed and a more driver-friendly cab fitted (i.e. with windows!). The vehicles were covered in the 'Classic Trucks' series here in the UK. I understand some are preserved in that form. Getting back to military matters, I understand the IDF's earliest tank transporters were the Diamond T (M19?) and trailer. Most modern TV 'newsreels' shown civilian trucks and trailers being used to transport the tanks and APCs. Hope this helps John Harris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John Harris [john@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: ZSU-23-4s in the UK I agree about the general condition of these vehicles in the UK, the Middle Wallop one appears to be a basket case, it has much external damage and missing pieces. The REME's example is at Borden (or it was), though no doubt it will move to the new museum at Arborfield when it opens (any details of the opening?), this one is very complete at least externally. The Shrivenham example is claimed to be "fully operational", in fact on a 'FOTM' visit a few years back the staff claimed several hundred rounds had been fired in the UK (good for keeping crows off your allotment). The Duxford one is the only one regularly run in public. I'd guess the trick bit to get working is the auxiliary gas turbine, which I assume is needed to get the electrics working? Hope this helps John Harris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Malcolm N. Waite [mw99@rapid.co.uk] Subject: Diorama Bases / Alternative Uses No you are not alone in this. I suppose my worst example was many years ago at a net curtain stall in Wigan market. After examining virtually every type on the stall to make the perfect cammo net in 1/76th I made my purchase, 1 yard of the material. Malcolm Waite Liverpool I have even use the cat's whiskers as aerials before now, they very good unfortunately she does not moult many. No animals were harmed in the making of this posting etc…….. Actually, the trick is to pull one whisker from each side simultaneously, otherwise the head moves away (that is a joke before everyone writes in….. OK?) Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Listmaster Subject: Military Modelling magazine indices project A couple of weeks ago, I decided that there had to be a better way to find old articles than leafing through several years' worth of magazines, so I resolved to write a set of spreadsheet indices, like the Tankette indices for my collection. I am starting with Military Modelling (written over 950 entries so far), but although there are some gaps in the early years (principally 1971-1972 and 1975-1977), my biggest problem is with the volumes from 1991 onwards, when I ceased to be able to pick up issues at my local newsagent due to an office move. Consequently, I would be interested to hear (off-list - please contact rlockie@hfs.co.uk) from anyone with a full set from that date onwards, who would be prepared to fill in the gaps on a template for me subject to the rules which I have been applying so far. If anyone has issues from the earlier periods, the same applies. You will get a free set, but then since I envisage distribution and updating being by the same means as the Tankette indices, that will not put you far ahead of anyone else, so it looks like rewards in heaven. Again….. Thanks in advance. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 6) From: Listmaster Subject: Sherman ARV Mk.II Has anyone ever seen a photograph of one of these on active service during WW2? All the photographs I ever see are of the Mk.I. I know from examining photographs that at least one Mk.II was converted from an ARV Mk.I (the marks where the earth anchor pin stowage was removed are still visible on the glacis), but it is even more elusive than the Crusader Gun Tractor or AEC 6x6 armoured command vehicle! Geoff Lacey tells me that the REME records show that some were sent to NW Europe but he has never seen any photos either. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 7) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: Brit Camo and a Canadian Query Hi Folks Hope you all have a good MM! OK...British camo - like Rob says I've done some notes with Mike Starmer which are due to go on the MAFVA site sometime. Now, if anyone who'd like a copy would like to mail me, I'll send them the .doc file (or rtf). Patterns are less easy than colours, but here goes. (Try and get at Hodges and Taylor on British Camo and markings - British Military Markings 1939-1945 Cannon, 1994) First thing to ask yourself is what, where and when - mainly where and when. The actual patterns in use were NW Europe 1939-41/42 - from MTP20 (Military training pamphlet) - broad flowingpatterns of dark over medium or medium over light. 1941/42-44 - from MTP46 - dark horizontal surfaces blending into medium verticals, usually in browns. Hodges and Taylor show the main versions of this - the most recognisable is "Mickey Mouse" a mispainted variant of the "dapple" MTP46 scheme 44-45 - from August 44 no pattern painting authorised, but older designs still in use from MTP46. Middle East 1940-41 - Caunter pattern in 3 colours very widespread 1941-42 - dark tone over Light or Portland Stone. No fixed patterns, but some common themes, perhaps El Alamein-Tunisia - set patterns of dark tone over Desert Pink (Mike Starmer has a selection of vehicle-specific designs). Some First Army vehicles in Tunisia show MTP46 and possible 20 patterns Italy 1943 - set patterns of dark tone over Light Mud. NW Europe patterns from MTP46 also in use. From later 1943 as NW Europe Far East Apart from some occurrences of non-standard Middle East patterns and a bit of Caunter, no patterning used except by Aussie and NZ vehicles (that is another story and I've got some notes preparing) So - Rob is right, check photos for something you like, check the date to get tones and see if there was a pukka pattern. In general you can decide on what something should have been painted even if you can't verify - this is especially true of softskins. The 1942 and 43 Middle East patterns got widely and fairly accurately used. MTP20 set no specific pattern, just the basic principles (Hodges and Taylor show the original pattern drawings as a guide). MTP46 patterns were sometimes used by the book, but also in some hairy variations! Hope this helps! let me know if more is needed. Now.... Some time this year IPMS mag mentioned a Canadian book on Canadian armour in Italy 1943-45. Anyone got details/know where I can get hold of a copy? My IPMS mag this year is full of gaps! I think there was a website which cited it.... Mike Mike Cooper, EU Specialist Reading Reference Library Abbey Square Reading RG1 3BQ Tel: 0118 901 5955/56 Fax: 0118 9015954/5959 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 8) From: Listmaster Subject: RMASG colour schemes Having recently acquired a Tamiya Centaur IV (well, it as going at a discount and I'd always rather fancied doing one as a Canadian vehicle post D-Day), I began to ponder the matter of colour schemes. Tamiya states Dark Earth (I assume SCC 2) as the overall colour, on the basis that the RMASG's vehicles were not repainted into SCC 15 prior to Overlord. Since the new instruction for SCC 15 was issued in April 1944, I could believe this, but does anyone have any solid evidence? If the RMASG did indeed not repaint into SCC 15, is it then also reasonable to assume the unit's Sherman control tanks to be US OD NO.9? Thanks Robert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 1) From: PSmith6328@aol.com Subject: Kits for sale Hello Fellow modellers I have some kits to sell. All kits are 1/35 scale unless stated. Post and Packing is not included in the prices. If you are would like a list, please e-mail me at the address above, phone 01908 505988 or write to the following address Phill Smith 26, Treborough North Furzton Milton Keynes Bucks MK4 1LR ENGLAND Please pass the list on to any modellers that you know Thanks and a Happy New Year Phill Smith Apologies - I should have posted this on the last volume but forgot to do so. There is (well, there was anyway) some good stuff on the list at very reasonable prices, so why not transfer some of it from Phill's loft to your own? The snow on my roof takes months to melt as a consequence…. Robert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 2) From: Listmaster Subject: Tankette indices to 35/1 The latest update to the Tankette (MAFVA journal - email mafvahq@aol.com for details of back issue availability and subscription rates) indices is now available. The format is as an MS Excel 5 file of some 2,200 lines and if you are not already on the mailing list and would like to be added, please contact me at rlockie@hfs.co.uk for a copy. The file is updated with every new issue and sent out in self-extracting zip form. Robert ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- 3) From: John Harris [john@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: UK Military Modelling 2000 web site First of all, I'd like to wish you all a very peaceful and Happy New Millennium. I've re-written my web site and it's up and running (on schedule), still a little rough round the edges and not quite finished, but with plenty of new things to see, including a 'walk-round' of a M2 'Alligator' bridging / ferry vehicle, soon to be kitted by Accurate Armour. Please visit John Harris john@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk UK Military Modelling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume