From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0020 15/01/2000 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: CVR(T) 2: CVR (T)s in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict 3: Falklands CVR(T 4: RMASG Centaurs 5: RE 7th R.T.R. MATILDAS 6: Need Help 7: Israeli armoured brigade organisation 10/1973 8: CVR(T) queries -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Apologies and update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Karl Grubb [karl@grubb72.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: CVR(T) Dear listmaster Re your request for info on CVR(T) in latest communication, plse find att info from Arms and Armour Press book called British Army Fighting vehicles 1945 to present. I picked this up for 50p at local s/h bookshop (where I pick up most of my books). scorp01 is interesting for storage along hull side near exhaust scorp02 shows ammo boxes above front headlights scorp03 is of Samson and is notable for 'clutter' on top as well as 'easy chair' the young boy is sitting on If you require any further info please contact me. I apologise if this is not in correct format as due to an error on my part I lost all details on PC due to having to restart PC from scratch. Cheers Karl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Scriven [bill.scriven@which.net] Subject: CVR (T)s in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict Tanks Illustrated No.12 (British Army Fighting Vehicles, 1945 to the present – Simon Dunstan) has a picture (credited to Paul Haley of Soldier) of two Scorpions in the Falklands. It's photo 28 on page 19. The first (front right three quarter view) appears to have three ammunition boxes, similar to those fitted to the Scimitars, on the right hand track guard below the exhaust. Towards the front are two taller, slimmer ammunition boxes (?) with a rolled foam bedroll in between. A similar ammunition box can be seen at the front of the left hand track guard. On the front above the lights is a length of tow rope wound up with what appears to be a small piece of rather scraggy cam net. Something that may be a set of web pouches hangs from the left hand side of the turret, though it is not clear what these are attached to. The second Scorpion is shown front left three quarter view. Apart from the normal CVRT long bin on the left hand track guard with some web pouches (?) in front the only additional stowage that can be seen on this vehicle is a bedroll and what appears to be a set web pouches attached to the left hand side of the turret. Strangely, the lights appear to be missing from the front of this vehicle. Neither vehicle has a visible registration marking. As the surfaces on which they would have been carried are largely unobscured by stowage I assume that they are either completely covered by dirt or were deliberately painted over for the duration of the campaign. For what its worth, none of the other photos of Falklands CVRTs (Scimitars and the Samson) that I looked at have visible registration numbers. But there is a photo on page 112 of The Scorpion Family by George Forty (Modern Combat Vehicles 5) which shows CVRTs of the Blues And Royals being welcomed home at Combermere Barracks Windsor after their return from the Falklands. The front vehicle (the only one clearly visible) is a Scorpion with the registration number 02FD96. Incidentally, both The Scorpion Family and British Army Fighting Vehicles state that two troops of the Blues and Royals were sent to the Falklands with a total of four Scorpions and four Scimitars. The fact that that a reconnaissance troop of a UK-based Tracked Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment consisted at the time of two Scorpions and two Scimitars tends to support this view. A single REME Samson recovery vehicle was also sent. This unfortunately fell into a drainage ditch at one point and had to be hoisted out by a Chinook! Bill Scriven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: MALCOLM IRESON [ireson@carltons36.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Falklands CVR(T) Dear Robert, If you can, get hold of a book called "Falklands Armoury" published by Guild Publishing. In it, there are 4 good photos of Scorpions out in the Falklands; also, there is a big double page cut-away of one, too big to scan for you (sorry) but I know for a fact the book is still available from the library. If you can't get hold of it, let me know, and I will send you my copy by post. Also please find attached a scan taken from the cover of Mil Mod (sorry I haven't got the rest of the mag for you) dated Jan 1983 if it's any help, also you could try the British Army website, as they have a section on the Falklands War there. I hope this is of some help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Cooper, Mike [Mike.Cooper@reading.gov.uk] Subject: RMASG Centaurs Dear All Much ink has been spilt about the Centaurs. Most people and illustrators show SCC2, but looking at the photos I can't help thinking that what we're looking at is too dark for SCC2 and must be SCC15, as per the ACIs as there was no other colour darker than SCC2 around. Although not evidence in itself, Mike Starmer is convinced that it is SCC15. My impression is that the vast majority of AFVs were repainted as they should have been, with at least the SCC2 in any MTP46 schemes overpainted The Shermans should still be No.9 OD - but frankly there is so little difference between fresh OD and SCC15 I'd not like to argue the toss. Why would we repaint them SCC15 when it was meant to match OD anyway? They almost certainly weren't repainted SCC2 when received from the US. Mike Interestingly, the same query came up on Missing Links this week, so I posted Mike's reply there as well. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: IAN HANRATTY [ian@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: RE 7th R.T.R. MATILDAS Hi All Recently a posting on the BRAILLE SCALE discussion group has lead to a search for names of the 7th R.T.R tank names, the posting was for the names and nos. of the 7th's MATILDAS during the early WESTERN DESERT CAMPAIGN period. I have an interest in the CREW NAMES FOR ALL BRITISH vehicles, can anyone help me with any info and I will pass on any relevant info to the chap. Cheers Ian H. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: MAPPSJames [MAPPSJames@croesy.rmplc.co.uk] Subject: Need Help Thanks for the issues. I have received them and also have a question to ask you. Recently I bought the old Airfix kit of the Bedford QL and 6pdr gun in 1/35th scale (as used in North Africa for my diorama). However when I read the instructions I found out that it does not tell you the direct colours to paint it; instead it gives the numbers of the paints using the old Airfix scheme. I have found out that M6 is black and M14 is buff but need to find out what M1, M5, M7, G4 and G16 are. I would be very grateful if you could find out what these are or if you know anyone who does give them my address or post on the net as I am stuck without it. Thanks lots James Hi James and welcome From memory, M1 was matt red-brown, M5 matt khaki, M7 matt flesh, G4 gloss black and G16 gunmetal. Amazing how they come back after all these years ;-). As to colour schemes for the vehicle as a whole, I can recommend Mike Cooper's listing of WW2 British colours and paint mixes, which he tells me is now on the MAFVA website (address at the end of this volume). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Listmaster Subject: Israeli armoured brigade organisation 10/1973 I have been asked by a non-subscriber about the composition and equipment of the Israeli units stationed on the Golan Heights in October 1973, notably the 7th Armoured and Barak Brigades. The only charts I have (in von Pivka and others) are specifically dated "post-1973" but does this mean they changed then or simply that no pre-war TO&E were released for security reasons? I believe that the tank types on the Golan at that time were all Centurion (presumably upgraded with 105mm and diesel engine), with the Pattons/M60s all in the southern sector. Did any other types (e.g.M51) make an appearance when the reserves arrived? Finally, with what were the artillery units on the heights equipped? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Listmaster Subject: CVR(T) queries Thanks to everyone who responded to my CVR(T) query, and for pointing out where I could find photos in the Dunstan book that I already had, thus almost doubling the size of my photo collection of Op. Corporate vehicles! Having had another look at them, it is clear that all had a box over the front right grille on the engine deck – any idea what it is for? In at least one photograph, it has a thick hose projecting from the front and bending round towards the rear. Some sort of improvised arrangement for transferring hot air from the engine compartment for another purpose seems probable It seems that the Scorpions were without ammunition boxes on the hull front, presumably for reasons of muzzle blast damage. I can match some of the ammo boxes with ones in my garage (planning to build masters and cast them one day, once all the WW2 ones are done) but those alongside the engine decks on the Scorp on p19 of Tanks Illustrated 12 are new to me. I believe the "tow rope" which Bill refers to is the kinetic energy recovery rope (KERR), a most impressive device for "jerking" bogged vehicles out of the mire but which is most exciting if used for regular towing as it is like towing with an elastic band! The ERM 02FD96 is most welcome - at least I know what number to obscure with mud now! Haley seems to have been the only photographer who went near the vehicles, so I will try Soldier magazine as well – I got some nice unpublished shots of a Khalid from a visit they did to the Jordanian army a few years back. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Apologies and update First, my apologies to those of you that I inadvertently failed to add to the group so you have received several weeks worth of volumes together. I think that is all of them now but if I have failed to add you, then you won't be reading this anyway :-(. Second (and only partly due to the old subscribers that I just added!), I am pleased to say that the list now numbers over 100 for the first time. Thanks to those of you who are spreading the word via websites and other means and please keep up the good work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume