From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol. 0050 26/08/2000 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Sexton references 2: Sexton 3: Sexton 4: Allied recognition stars 5: Sexton 6: 3 Tigers 7: Sexton plans 8: Sexton plans 9: Stars 10: Panhard 178 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Listmaster's email addresses 2: Glasgow MAG model show -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Sexton references As luck would have it, I was surfing through Missing Links last week and someone else had been asking about Sexton. It elicited the following list of sites from Peter Brown: http://www3.sympatico.ca/chrjohnson/index.htm http://www.cgo.wave.ca/~sbeldam/acorn.htm http://www.magma.ca/~tracks/ http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/ http://www.mapleleafup.org/ Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Paul Roberts [proberts@mail.tamcotec.com] Subject: Sexton >> Could anyone out there point me in the direction of interior details of the Sexton SPG? << Well, I have a handfull of interior photos of Bill Gregg's Sexton as it is currently stored at CFB Shilo in Manitoba. (BTW Bill Gregg, for many years collector and restorer of Cdn Mil Vehs died recently. He did an awful lot to preserve and disseminate info on Cdn vehs) Anyone wanting scans should email me _off list_ and I will package up a bunch of them for a single email. PLEASE let me know the maximum size email your mail server will accept as I don't want to bounce any of the posts. Paul Paul Roberts | Accuracy Scale Tech Distributing | is our Measure of Scale Model Builders | Quality proberts@tamcotec.com Visit our home page http://www.tamcotec.com/proberts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Hendry, Philip [p.hendry@lancaster.ac.uk] Subject: Sexton The gun at Woolwich, if memory serves, would do fine for a Normandy vehicle - trailing return rollers, CDP track and sprockets, cast nose (I think?). I've never seen inside, so have no idea how complete it is, or whether, as is the case with so many guns at Woolwich, it is somehow non-standard, but the exterior is fine. Forget the FSM article (from about 12- 15 years ago I think?) - as far as I remember the plans were wrong - I forget how now, but there was something fundamental up with them. The Tank Museum has some excellent stowage sketches and other stuff on Sexton - well worth getting. They answer just about any question a modeller (or at least this modeller!) could think of asking. Cheers, Phil Thanks for saving me searching out the FSM article then! I have just remembered that Duxford has one as well - it is not fantastically accessible to the public and the Land Warfare Hall is not the world’s best-lit building for examining an OD vehicle, but it is probably fairly complete, at least from a non-mechanical point of view. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: IAN HANRATTY [ian@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Allied recognition stars Hi Dan On page 592 of the Military Modelling October 1974 was a series by Geoffrey Futter on British Army Vehicle Colour Schemes & Markings of WW2. There is a photo of a Austin 10hp light utility car being painted with a stencil. This photo clearly shows the style of stencil used on these vehicles and the point of the star facing to the rear. The text of the article mentions the other locations of the stars, i.e. soft skins: cab doors, body sides, bonnet top, cab, or body roof; on armour the star was painted either on the engine decks or the turret roof. After a quick scan of the text there appears to be no mention of any official instruction or training pamphlet giving any specific orders. There may be more info in the more modern series by M Bellis that I believe was also run in Military Modelling. I hope this helps Ian Hanratty The relevant Bellis article was in Mil. Mod. November 1994, but does not add anything to the debate about the direction of the star points. He does mention that the circle was added as the plain star could be confused with a cross. Mind you, from the accounts I have read, the air types tended to attack pretty much anything that moved ;).. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: IAN HANRATTY [ian@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Sexton Hi Daniel There is another Sexton at the Muckleburgh museum in north Norfolk; if you ask the staff nicely they are more than willing to help. I was lucky enough to be allowed inside the vehicle to photograph it. If you are interested I could dig out the photos and scan them for you. Please send me your e mail address to ian@habra.freeserve.co.uk and I will try and do them this week for you. Cheers Ian Hanratty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: PSmith6328@aol.com Subject: 3 Tigers Hi fellow tankies I am after a copy of a photograph showing 3 Tiger Mk.Is in line abreast with the two outer Tiger turrets being used as props for a beam across the rear of the middle Tiger. On this beam is suspended the engine of the middle Tiger in the process of an engine removal. If you have or know where I can get hold of a copy of this photo please let me know. Thanks Phill Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: nickbalmer [nickbalmer@ukonline.co.uk] Subject: Sexton plans Hello Daniel, Try Wheels and Tracks Volume 53 pages 18 to 27. Also the Tank Museum does a very good set in their plans sets. At the most recent Cambridge MAFVA meeting I had the opportunity to get into the Sexton at Duxford. It is in fairly good shape. We hope, subjects to the IWM's kind permission, to get an opportunity next May for another such trip. D-Day to Arnhem With Hertfordshire' Gunners, by Robert Kiln published in 1996 by Castlemead Publications in Welwyn Garden City has some very good pictures of Sextons in Normandy. Also shows the Sherman OP tanks which directed them including all the markings etc.. The preserved Sextons seem to all have the later cast one piece noses. However Kiln’s photos mainly from the IWM show all the earlier three piece nose. There were changes in the interior stowage between the earlier Sextons and the later version, so be careful to get the correct interior. Wheels and Tracks shows the changes. Paul Middleton and I did some research into the photos in Kilns book, because several appear to be of the Essex Yeomanry. We believe that the SPs with names belonged to the Essex Yeomanry, and the unnamed ones came from the Herts Yeomanry. The Hitchin Museum has a couple (or did several years ago) of photos of Herts Yeomanry Sextons. One photo in Kiln's book shows a Sherman OP from the Herts Yeomanry advancing with Northants Yeomanry Shermans during Charnwood on 16 July 1944. Interestingly the Herts Yeomanry OP still has the 50 Calibre Browning machine gun mounted, which seems unusual for British Shermans. By Lille they had gone. It seems that the Sherman OPs may only have been issued shortly after 11 June 1944 when Universal carriers were still being used as OPs. Regards Nick Balmer .50 Brownings are indeed fairly uncommon on British Shermans in 21AG - I was once informed by a veteran of 2IG that they dug a large hole in Normandy shortly after their arrival in theatre and buried them all, together with the driver's windscreen/hoods, both for the same reason: they interfered with escape in the event of a hit. With around four seconds before the whole thing went up, the time spent pushing a .50 receiver away from the cupola could make all the difference. Perhaps the OPs kept them longer as they were expected to be less exposed to direct gunfire (not that it was the case at Villers Bocage, of course ;)). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Sexton plans Drawings for the Sexton appeared in Fine Scale Modeller May 1990 (& I have taken care of Dan's request). Regards, JB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mike Cooper [coopmik1@hotmail.com] Subject: Stars Dear all I can only pretty much confirm what Rob has said re: white stars. However it was unofficial Canadian practice (well I think unofficial, but very general) to deliberately paint stars upside down. Canadians resented the association with "those people south of the border" and so when the instructions came out, they complied, but with this general variation. It is most noticeable on the sides of things like Kangaroos and Sextons. As to roof stars, I haven't seen enough to be 100% sure, and I'm not sure about what the Brits' instructions were on the matter. I'll check Mike I have also seen Canadian stars painted at an angle (i.e. with a line drawn between one point of the star and though its centre parallel to the horizontal) as well as inverted. I recall seeing many Canadians when I was touring Europe in 1986 all with maple leaf symbols attached to their rucksacks to avoid being mistaken for their southern neighbours, so evidently it was not just in WW2! Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: MikeFosgett@gateway.net Subject: Panhard 178 My name is Mike Fosgett, my E-Mail address is MikeFosgett@gateway.net I am interested in obtaining information on the Panhard model 178, particularly the vehicle interior. This applies to both the standard armored car (with or without radio) and the un-armored command vehicle. I am interested in information on this vehicle in Czech, German and French service for an article I am preparing for my local IPMS/USA chapter newsletter. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Mike Fosgett IPMS/USA #11336 MAFVIA #7948 The Panhard was drawn in Bellona MVP Series 19 (including the 1947 FL-1 turret) and Simon Dunstan' book "Vietnam Tracks" has an ECPA photo of it in Indo China during the 1950s. further shots appear in Mesko's Armour in Vietnam (Squadron Signal) and Dunstan's Tank War Vietnam (Arms & Armour), although the coverage on non-US allies in the recent Concord book by Green is pretty poor and the French are absent altogether. I cannot recall having seen any interior plans or photography however. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Listmaster’s email addresses I know some of you, particularly those who communicate with me in my individual capacity, are getting confused about my rather frequent changes of address, so to clarify things, here is the situation. Anything to be posted on this newsgroup should be sent to think.tank@tesco.net - if you want to avoid it being posted, put "Private" in the "Subject" field. I cannot guarantee not to post anything which is not marked as "Private". My original personal address rlockie@hfs.co.uk is still current but may be discontinued later this year, due to a change in corporate circumstances of my employer. It has already been replaced by rlockie@towrylaw.com and messages sent to that address will reach me wherever I am as they are forwarded to my home PC from the office server. I am in the process of registering a replacement for the latter and will let people know when I learn that it has been done. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: IAN HANRATTY [ian@hanra.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Glasgow MAG model show The Miniature Armour Group in Glasgow will be holding their annual model show in the Nautical College in Glasgow on the seventh of October. Along with some other members of MAFVA I will be putting on a display of models and trying to recruit some new members to join MAFVA. If anyone is attending the show and would be interested in helping with the MAFVA display could they please drop me a line. We are very interested in country members of MAFVA who may not belong to a modelling club and would not normally have a area to display their models on. On a similar note would any small scale modellers who intend to visit the show please drop me a line as I am trying to organise a small scale AFV model display as well. Cheers Ian Hanratty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume