From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol. 0062 03/02/2001 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Wrecked buildings and accuracy in building dioramas... 2: Finnish camouflage 3: British flamethrowers 4: War damaged buildings 5: Finnish wartime colours 6: Korean War Land Rover 7: Zimmerit 8: British flamethrowers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Milton Keynes Modelcraft 2001 2: Next week’s digest -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Chris Hughes [Cjm.Hughes@btinternet.com] Subject: Wrecked buildings and accuracy in building dioramas... With regard to Kelvin's comments about blasted buildings etc. I have a couple of gripes concerning accurate dioramas which I've wanted to get off my chest for a very long time! I spent six of my twenty two years as a soldier serving in the Royal Horse Artillery. My first "Trade" course was B3 Gunnery (Field) and one of our most important safety lessons was on ammunition handling. Whether SP Artillery or towed field guns, we were taught NEVER to place a cartridge case upright onto its base. The percussion cap on ANY such ammo nature is very susceptible to damage and can be accidentally set off if dropped onto, say, a piece of gravel or stone. How many times have we seen the archetypal Verlinden diorama with all those shell cases standing upright, even worse - balanced precariously on the engine deck of a tank or SP gun... This is a recipe for disaster! The second gripe is the seeming insistence on dismantling web equipment to scatter it around a vehicle or diorama base. The only item I ever separated from my webbing was my respirator, to have it close to hand... Think about it, you have to bug out in a hurry and all you possess to survive on the battlefield is on your belt! Are you going to disassemble it and leave it scattered about? As 'eck as like! It stays to hand, even when on a "shovel recce"!! OK, Gripe over. Perhaps a good source for the info Kelvin is looking for is newsreel footage from Kosovo etc, photos of the "Liberation" of Berlin and such stuff. The Hulton Getty photo collection is full of such imagery and there have been many books published showing images from this collection. I can't recall the URL at the moment, but it's easy to get to using a search engine. Hope this has been of use, maybe it'll start some threads running? Chris Actually, after examining many dioramas over the years, I had formed the view that there must have been a sub-calibre training round for many tank guns - I can recall seeing an M551 with 120mm rounds stacked next to it and a magazine recently published a photograph of a diorama of a Jagdtiger with an 8.8cm round leaning against the rear of the fighting compartment. It is also interesting to observe the vehicle crews who, as soon as the vehicle stops, seem to feel that the thing to do is take off all the kit they can and scatter it about on the floor next to the tank. Perhaps someone should do a model with all the stowage clips and shell racks empty after a sudden movement order ;-) (and a stone Buddha in the background of course!). I think my pet hate would have to be the diorama whose builder is clearly a competent modeller and pointer but where little if any effort has been put into thinking through the practicality of the scene. This category would have to include the sunken gun pit whose ramp was too steep for the gun to get down, the "helicoptered in" gun in the ruined building and the men on the remnants of upper storeys who have obviously shinned up the drainpipe as no ladder is present. The old journalistic questions of Who?, What?, When?, Where?, Why? and How? seem relevant to diorama building to me. Robert Digging in to await return fire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Richard Marks [richard@marks28.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Finnish camouflage Hi Rob, Just a quick note re. your question about Finish camo. I believe the base tone to be the grey. That's how I paint my Finnish vehicles and it looks fine. Regards Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: George Hogg [hogg_george@hotmail.com] Subject: British flamethrowers Hi Guys The British army used two types of flamethrower in WWII. The "Lifebuoy" Flame-Thrower, Portable, No. 2, Marks I and II and the "Harvey" Flame-Thrower, Transportable, No.1 Mark 1 ( 2-wheeled carriage). Only the Lifebuoy Mark II was used in combat, the Mark I being used as a training weapon. (Source Sub-Machineguns & Automatic Rifles. WWII Fact file series by Peter Chamberlain & Terry Gander published by MacDonald & Jane's). For an example of this equipment in action, see the film "A Bridge too Far". George Hogg -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: nickbalmer [nickbalmer@ukonline.co.uk] Subject: War damaged buildings Hello, You should try the Royal Engineers as they have comprehensive data on such things. It is a very complex subject. Buildings are so varied and the raw materials vary so much. Brick walls do not resist SA80 bullets as well as packed chalk, which for some reason is extremely resistant for an equal thickness. I am a Civil Engineering Estimator for a major contractor, and over the years have carried out a fair amount of demolition, ranging from mud forts in Saudi Arabia through 7-storey telephone exchanges with nuclear hardened basements, houses and old factories. I am always struck how dioramas never have enough rubble. This amount of rubble is always hard to estimate, and as it forms the major element in the cost of disposal of vital importance to me. The walls of a building when knocked down expand in volume, this is known as bulking. It is basically because the rubble lies all piled up with a very large volume of trapped air between the individual lumps. This varies between 1.75 and 2 times the volume occupied by the wall from which it came. So for a 5 metre long 3.6m high wall 300mm thick you get 5.4cu m of intact wall but at least 9.45cu m of rubble. A good rule of thumb taught me by a foreman with years of experience is that for houses and old fashioned Victorian type shops and offices the rumble will come to about a third of the way up the windows on each storey, if you flatten the building. You have really to do your research on the particular battlefield that you depict. By the way the mud fort was terrible to bring down, we hadn't realised it was reinforced inside the mud with old palm tree logs tied together in lattice work. When you hit it with a digger the mud off the surface fell off, leaving an impenetrable cloud of dust, which persisted for several minutes and an almost intact tower. We finally got it by doing a Fred Dibnah on it which was great fun, but hairy in the extreme. Thank god the HSE weren't in Saudi! Regards Nick Balmer That is the first time I have seen a formula for determining the amount of rubble, so many thanks for that - however, I must agree about the lack of it on most dioramas. Another pet hate of which you have reminded me ;-). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: nickbalmer [nickbalmer@ukonline.co.uk] Subject: Finnish wartime colours Hello, I have been researching the three tone camouflage used on T26 and Vickers tanks in Finland during the mid-war period. Recently I was sent from Finland a number of colour photos of a restored T26. My correspondent said that although it has been restored to a green single colour, there was evidence of the older three tone colour on it when it was restored. The green colour appears to have been a pale green similar to that on Soviet tanks, and might be what was called Apple Green. This seems to have been the base colour. The interior was painted with white walls, and a Post Office red floor, transmission, seat frame, steering levers and the edge of the hatches and the frame around the driver’s hatch. The vision ports and the handles to the steering levers together with all the switches are black. The ammunition boxes inside are white. The seat covers are a dark red leather. The T26 is currently painted a deep almost bronze green. Regards Nicholas Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: George Hogg [hogg_george@hotmail.com] Subject: Korean War Land Rover Hi Guys Can anybody help me out with drawings of the Land Rovers which were sent to Korea? I have one 3/4 front photo of in George Forty's book. Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: MALCOLM IRESON [ireson@carltons36.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Zimmerit You could always try doing it yourself, with Humbrol body putty, and the Tamiya zimmerit tool, its messy, good fun, and a lot cheaper, try it out on a scrap piece of plastic card first. Malc You know, I suggested that to him as well, but he wimped out ;o) Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: British flamethrowers Jim Marshall claims he has pictures of flame-throwers, albeit on manoeuvres in GB - if one considers these 'in action'. An SAE will get you copies from: 10 Mare Bay Close, St Leonards on Sea, Sussex, TN38 8EQ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Milton Keynes Modelcraft 2001 A final reminder about the above show, of which the first will take place tomorrow at Bletchley Leisure Centre, Princess Way, Milton Keynes (signposted from the M1 J13 and J14 and the A5 – if lost call 07949 390570!). I will be there with the usual MAFVA suspects and good luck to everyone involved with organisation and helping out. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Listmaster Subject: Next week’s digest I am away next weekend so the next edition will probably go out on Monday 12th Febuary. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume