From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol. 0063 13/02/2001 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Wrecked buildings and accuracy in building dioramas... 2: Re:dioramas 3: Japanese army colours 4: British flamethrowers 5: Saracen Mk 3 deployment and colour schemes 6: Japanese colours part 2 7: Dioramas & models 8: Hulton Getty 9: WW1 tanks 10: 105m howitzer rounds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Kelvin Mok [klmok@home.com] Subject: Wrecked buildings and accuracy in building dioramas... > Hope this has been of use, maybe it'll start some threads running? > > Chris More: 1. Tank tracks so slack that they will be thrown the first turn the tank makes. 2. 50 ton tank crossing a wooden bridge. 3. AFVs running on rocks the size of footballs = Thrown tracks, wrecked suspensions, shaken crew and equipment, broken ankles if crew is posed to jump out 4. Tracks that should be slightly sunken into the earth instead of "floating" as on a hard pad. 5. Ditto for rubber tires. Also if overloaded the vehicle's suspension should correspond to the load. I hope I do not come across as being overly critical. It is just that I am good at recognizing patterns. One quick look at a situation and if something doesn't belong I notice that immediately and wonder why. This really put the fun into travelling and just about anything I take an interest in. Kelvin Mok klmok@home.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer [bradford.chaucer@snet.net] Subject: Re:dioramas Robert and Chris: I can't argue with your logic, however I do have a quibble with your sense of artistic license! :-) I have seen many fine models that are depicted in technically inaccurate modes. I recall for instance a recon or combat car at the 2000 US IPMS Nats (a V100 I think) that had every access hatch and cover swung open. Now I very much doubt that any mechanic would avoid a spot demotion for opening a vehicle up to that extent in the field!!! It would have taken 10 minutes of buttoning up to get on the road! It did however make for a spectacular model!! As to the dios, true I doubt that the gear is unstowed and the supplies are spread about to the extent that most dios depict, but I suspect that if the modeler just plopped the vehicle down on otherwise clean ground, the dio would look very un-interesting. The same is true of some of the unnatural settings. While the ramp into the pit may be far too steep for the vehicle to have navigated, the properly graded ramp would have made for an unwieldy piece. The subject is the vehicle in the pit, not an exercise in civil engineering! The same goes for ship models. I don't ever recall seeing a real ship perched on 2 thin brass pedestals! To follow your sentiments, all ship models would have to be waterline or shown in dry dock, which would then necessitate omitting the guns, masts, deck fittings etc as these are generally added after the ship is launched! Any modeling exercise is a combination of accurate model building and artistic effect. No need to dig in however, I promise to only lob over words, not live ammo :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer bradford.chaucer@snet.net I have no problem with people mounting ships on brass pedestals or indeed putting a vehicle or artillery piece on a plain wooden base with no groundwork (or even no base at all). However, the use of a scenic base and a diorama implies that a story is being told and not just the hardware displayed – which makes the credibility of the story important in my book. I accept that a long ramp will take up a lot of the base but the ramp does not even need to be there - why not place the pit at the edge of the base and only build three walls of it? Anyway, without getting into specifics, I was merely using it as an illustration of the lack of thinking – I came up with the "off base" ramp idea while I was typing this, and I make no claims to Einsteinian brilliance. Still, perhaps if I spent more time building and less studying photographs to get my uncompleted models right, I would have more credibility! Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Listmaster Subject: Japanese army colours While lurking at the Milton Keynes show (very decent event, well worth adding to the diary for next year ,in my view) on 4th February, I was fortunate to bump into Mike Starmer, whose efforts in researching colour matches and schemes are positively scary. He mentioned hearing that there had been a thread about Japanese colours and imparted some useful information, to me, which like a total idiot, I have mislaid. He did describe the colour as brown and offered a mix but hopefully I will locate my scribbled notes before the next digest or he will manage to get back in touch with me ;-). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bill Scriven [bill.scriven@mail.which.net] Subject: British flamethrowers From D-Day to VE-Day Volume 2 by Jean Bouchery has a good clear picture of the "Lifebuoy" type flamethrower. The caption states that it is being "operated by an infantryman of 1st KSOB (3rd Infantry Division) during an exercise in England". The accompanying text gives the total weight of the pack as 22kg, the volume of inflammable liquid as 18.61 (litres?), the range 45m, and the time of each burst 2 seconds, repeatable ten times. It also notes that the flamethrower was fired by .303 cartridges. Bill Scriven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bill Scriven [bill.scriven@mail.which.net] Subject: Saracen Mk 3 deployment and colour schemes I'm in the process of building a JB Saracen Mk 3 (the version fitted with reverse flow cooling) and am toying with the idea painting it in either a Suez, Aden or Cyprus colour scheme. I know that the Mk 3 was used in Aden, but can anyone confirm it was deployed to Suez or Cyprus? Can anyone suggest a good match for the sand colour used for British army vehicles sent to Suez? And was the same colour used on armour in Cyprus and Aden, or was it a lighter stone colour? Any help would be appreciated. Bill Scriven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Listmaster Subject: Japanese colours part 2 The following was on Missing Links last year: Japanese 3 tone camo... by Taesung Harmms Posted on May 30 2000, 02:10 PM "What colours did the Japanese use to camouflage their tanks?" I asked the same question a while ago to Mr.Osamu.S (Mr.Taki recommended him). He suggested the following: Mr. COLOR of GUNZE-SANGYO as following manner. TUTIKUSA-IRO (Red Brown) - 95% of No. 41 + 5% of No. 4 TUCHI-IRO (Mahogany) - 90% of No. 42 + 5% of No. 2 + 5% of No. 5 KAREKUSA-IRO (Mid Stone) - 100% of No. 21 Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Dioramas & models Chris Hughes brought up some very valid comments. Spike Judd & I have observed some real gems at competitions. Like tank decks stacked with clutter that would probably become inflammatory within ten minutes of cruising down the road. Most rear deck baggage always seems to be super-glued on too. One that really got me was a German poncho tent that was sitting in the first floor of a wrecked building. John Baumann Having seen the two camp beds which were burnt through by a Ferret exhaust through being stowed too close to it, I can vouch for the clutter problem. So that's what all the shouting and pointing by the pedestrians was about ;-). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Hulton Getty This photo collection may be found at:- http://hultongetty.com John Baumann -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Clifton W. McCullough [mccullou@hal-pc.org] Subject: WW1 tanks I am designing 1/76 card models of some WWI tanks. I based my Mk.IV on the Belonna print. Does anyone have drawings to convert the Mk.IV to Mk.I and Mk.V? I have also done a French FT17 and a German A7V. I would like to locate drawings of the Schneider and St. Chamond tanks. I am willing to pay postage etc. Wayne McCullough Houston, TX, USA According to the Tankette indices, there were plans of the Schneider in 22/5 (Zaloga, 1/76) and 11/1 (Harley, 1/76). Harley also drew the St. Chamond (1/76) in 11/2. Interestingly, there seems to have been nothing on the Mk.1, IV or V, although there was a plan of the Mk.V*, with subsequent corrections in a later issue. 22/5 and a few of 11/1 are still available from Gary Williams on mafvahq@aol.com but 11/2 is no more so it is a matter of tracking down someone who has one. I cannot recall seeing much elsewhere but there are others whose interest in and knowledge of the period is greater than mine so they may have better ideas. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Mike Cooper [coopmik1@hotmail.com] Subject: 105m howitzer rounds Dear All First off all congrats to everyone on some really punchy and sensible discussion on dioramas! The World most definitely does not shake out of a Verlinden spares packet! I'm planning a Priest on Sicily - yes, I'm sorry folks, but it's going to be Light Mud and Black, I've just had to force myself. One aspect has totally floored me. 105 How. rounds. I know from the In Action - or I think I know - that they come in tubes, and that the tubes are "olive drab". Is this so, and if not what is the colour coding used on the projectiles IF these would be visible? Cheers Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Visit the Miniature AFV Association website at http://homepages.go.com/~mafva/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume