From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0086 12/08/2001 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: Making discs 2: Orbats 3: Line drawings 4: AMX-30 variants 5: Duxford "Cromwell 6: Sd.Ah.116 loads 7: Aussie Renaults 8: Vickers 6ton tank colour scheme request 9: Painting tracks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: For sale 2: New MAFVA website -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Listmaster Subject: Making discs While pondering the level of work required on my 2S1 kit over the last few days, it occurred to me that there are several disc-shaped items on the hull and turret which need to be replaced or rebuilt. I am OK with anything from 10mm upwards (Olfa circle cutter) and anything from 4mm downwards (Historex punch & die set) but the majority of the ones I need seem to fall in the middle ground. Short of investing in a lathe and turning them down (as Steve Zaloga does) from resin or acrylic rods, has anyone a better idea? If I do need a lathe, can anyone steer me towards ones worth looking out for and equally, ones worth avoiding? I have tried the method of marking out with dividers and then hacking and filing but it is pretty fiddly at these sizes and I wonder if there is a better way? Slicing up solid rods (such as knitting needles) is one solution but given how little is needed at a time, it could get expensive to buy all the thicknesses I need. I even looked at the Waldron punch & die set, but the large one has 0.16", 0.12" and 0.089" (approximately 3.05, 4.06 and 9.91mm) as the smallest three, which is hardly an advance on my existing equipment. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Daniel Taylor [d-taylor@dircon.co.uk] Subject: Orbats Hi All Having studied a good deal of WWII history, I'd like to learn a little of how the lessons of that war have manifested themselves in today's British Army. A little service in the TA over ten years ago did little to help that and most of the current literature does not convey a very broad picture. One specific area that I would be interested in understanding is unit orbats. For example, I know how an armoured brigade in 1944 would have been organised with three armoured regiments and a motorised infantry battalion, and which other services one could expect to be working in support. How would that have evolved, for instance, in the Gulf War? Any suggested reading or information would be warmly appreciated. Thanks Dan Taylor I usually find that the stuff produced for wargamers is of assistance here. I do not have primary source material against which to test the current ORBATs but the 1960s and 1970s ones do seem to correspond with my copy of Land Operations - The Combat Arms. The most recent copy I have are the Ultra Modern Army Lists (1982) and the Digest 4 for Challenger II rules, published by Tabletop Games in 1989, which covered the Central Front armies (Digest 5 was to cover the rest of the world). There may well have been an updated version issued since the Gulf war (was it really ten years ago?)but I have not touched my armies since I completed my GSFG tank regiment just as the damn wall came down ;-) A similar situation overtook me as I finished my model of the only Mike class SSN, which promptly sank off Norway. Maybe I should warn the USN if I start on a nuclear carrier model ;-). Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: TW [grand-poobah@vtc.net] Subject: Line drawings I would like to thank all for their input on the line drawings. I really do appreciate it!! T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ian Pattison [IPattison@IWM.ORG.UK] Subject: AMX-30 variants Hi Everybody I've been tearing my hair out trying to find information out on the AMX-30 variants, especially the ARV, Roland AA launcher and the Pluton missile tank. There just isn't anything out there in the way of publications. has any one got anything on them? Drawings would be ideal but probably wishful thinking. Ian Pattison Well, there was nothing in Tankette but I have an idea that there was a piece in an old Military Modelling although my indices are temporarily inaccessible. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: John Harris [ukmilmod@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: Duxford "Cromwell" Hello, Did any of you peer through the gloom and catch the new D-Day exhibit in the Land Warfare Hall? The "Cromwell" confused me a bit; it appears to be an Artillery OP version, yet according to my references the only Artillery OP tanks at D-Day were in fact Cavaliers (aka Cromwell Mk.1). The restoration appears to be based on a Centaur hull, I assume the one that was in the workshops for so long. So, any ideas, is it a factual restoration or a bit of artist licence? Cheers John http://www.ukmilmod.force9.co.uk This is indeed the vehicle which was undergoing restoration in the workshops. Th plan had been to restore it to running condition, to which end a gearbox was made from two or three dud ones and an engine made by downrating and backdating a Centurion Meteor (broadly the same engine). However, the forthcoming Normandy exhibition required a Cromwell and it was therefore intended to use it in that, as a static exhibit (I think the original plan was to have it sticking out of a house). After last year's show, we were chatting to John Delaney and he said that extensive correspondence with Bovington revealed that the Type A and B hulls (of which the DX example was one) did not actually see service in Normandy, so it would not be legitimate to do it as a wartime gun tank. In addition, the angled trackguards and 6pdr gun were not authentic for an active service vehicle. It was thought that it might be painted up as an RMASG Centaur IV but the same trackguard, hull type and (also) tyre design militated against that. In the end, the problem was resolved by the swapping of a gash Centaur dozer (impressively restored to a gun tank by the MT yard chaps) for the Churchill AVRE which was in Normandy and now resides in the Land Warfare Hall. This came with a non-working Liberty engine, which was removed from the dozer and installed (after I had removed the previously installed traverse motor and hydraulic pump) in the A27 (which now became a "Centaur" if indeed it had not been one originally). With me so far? The Meteor and working gearbox were, last time I looked, in the workshops awaiting some other application. Anyway, the final decision on the vehicle (now a Centaur due to the engine) was to bodge it as an OP/command tank, hence the map tables and tilt frame. It is not entirely genuine due to the wrong hull type and (non-original) mudguards but at least it is a representative of the A27 series. Unfortunately there is no genuine Sherman to represent the main tank type used by the British and Commonwealth forces in Normandy but that problem is not confined to DX. I was not aware that Cavalier was the same as Cromwell Mk.1 or indeed were used in action at all - Surely since the latter had, by definition, a Meteor engine and the former had a Crusader type rear end, they cannot have been known by the same name? Surely Cavalier was used for training only? Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Harris [ukmilmod@ukmilmod.force9.co.uk] Subject: Sd.Ah.116 loads Hello, Not a boat, but the 'WW2 in Colour' video has a (colour of course) sequence of a FAMO & Sd.Ah.116 travelling by loaded with a few dozen troops complete with their bicycles piled onto the trailer. It's early war in grey and I think in France (from memory); all you'll need are the FAMO & Sd.Ah.116 and lots of the bicycle sets! Cheers John http://www.ukmilmod.force9.co.uk And lots of those Aber p/e spoke sets for the bicycles.. ;o) Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Mike Cooper [coopmik1@hotmail.com] Subject: Aussie Renaults Dear All Thanks to Mike G for the fascinating stuff on Aussie Renaults. Just the sort of thing Think Tank is great for. I've yet to chase up the IWM material but on the basis of the AWM photos I may need a little convincing that these little gadgets are the same family of patterns and tones as the Aussie vehicles. Look at the contrast on the Carrier at Neg. 024402. This is very definitely in the G3/Slate and Light/Portland Stone scheme. Now look at 010770, and 010759 (for example). I see a lower contrast pattern with sprayed blotches which have a thin dark border. This seems to me to of a different character to the "British" style scheme on the Carrier. Where they are in more than one colour the Renaults are in French colours. I find it difficult to believe that even Slate/Light stone, the least contrasty of the options would give this little contrast/tonal range. I'll try to get to see the IWM shots, but what I see here certainly doesn't look like even a field expedient British paint job. I shall converse with Mr Starmer - he's looked at more photos of British tanks than my cat's had fleas! Perplexed of Reading (Mike Cooper) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Michael.Grieve@ipaustralia.gov.au Subject: Vickers 6ton tank colour scheme request Hi there Thinkers Is anyone out there familiar with the three (?) tone + black outline camouflage scheme that was applied to the Vickers 6ton tank (I understand Bovington's example appears in this scheme), and can supply me with hobby paint equivalents or mixes (Humbrol preferred)? I have a spare 1/35 Mirage Vickers 6-ton kit, and thought I'd like to build it, with some modification, as one of the 16 vehicles supplied to the Chinese in 1935 - just for something different! Thanks and best regards Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Listmaster Subject: Painting tracks I found the following in an article by Øyvind Leonsen, I think on the Missing Links website, which I hope he will not mind me quoting. I have not tried it but the photographs of the tracks on his model (a Tiger II with P2 turm) look pretty convincing to me. He used Friul white metal tracks but the technique should work equally well with other types. The main thing to remember is not to make them too rusty-looking, as active service vehicles are much less likely to have rusty tracks than those which have sat in museums for fifty years. In the desert (as seen in photos from the 1991 Gulf war), the sand polishes the metal to a most "unrealistic" bright colour! Robert The tracks are Friulmodel white metal tracks. They were time-consuming to assemble, as there were some moulding flash present and the links didn´t fit perfectly together. Anyway, after a lot of work I was done, and they got a good layer of red brown Tamiya (XF-64 I believe) initially to hide the silver of the white metal. Then they got a layer of the same buff dirt color as on the wheels. After that, a burnt umber oil paint wash (thinned with Humbrol Thinner) was applied, and left to dry. Then a wash of rusty and buff pastel chalk with Humbrol Thinner as medium is carefully applied to tie the colors together. At this stage I attached the tracks. Next, I drybrushed with Burnt Sienna oil paint. This makes the tracks look as if they are dusty/dirty and that the dust has been worn off the high surfaces and remains in the recesses, see picture. This gives an impression that the color on the raised areas is the actual rusty track color. To finish the track off I used a 2B drawing pencil on the thread surfaces and parts of the track that are subject to constant wear. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: price.r.h@talk21.com Subject: For sale Badger 150 airbrush, excellent condition, £43 or will swap for unbuilt Accurate Armour Matilda Mk1. Robert Price -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Listmaster Subject: New MAFVA website After a "down" period, the MAFVA website lives again, now at www.mafva.com which should be easier to remember. Any comments on content (and contributions) are welcome, but please don't end them to me! Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Back issues of Think Tank (thanks to Shane Jenkins) can be found at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/thinktank/thinktank.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume