From: Think Tank Subject: Think Tank Vol.0099 25/11/2001 Think.tank@tesco.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS' INDEX 1: British M29 colour schemes and markings 2: King Tiger in Berlin 3: Twin 40 mm Bofors water-cooled? 4: Syrian Pz IV 5: British M29 Weasels 6: British WW1 artillery 7: Punch and die sets 8: SU-152 questions 9: Window cleaning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: nickbalmer [nickbalmer@ukonline.co.uk] Subject: British M29 colour schemes and markings Hello Bob, The Concorde book by Steve Zaloga on LVTs has at least one photo of a Weasel in British service, at I think the Rhine crossing. It appears in a photo with several LVTs which are parked up behind flood banks, and are captioned as belonging to the Lothians. The book also has several pictures of specially modified LVTs in Italy. Some have 25-pounders installed in such a way as to be able to provide supporting fire on the run in. There is also a command LVT with a roofed in area, and another with a 2-pounder anti-tank gun installed to fire over the driver's compartment, just behind the position normally occupied by the Polsten or Oerlikon. Both of these were new to me. Regards Nick Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: mechcanqi [mechcanqi@tinyworld.co.uk] Subject: King Tiger in Berlin Hi all, I am looking for information regarding King Tigers fighting in Berlin 1945. After watching a battlefield special form SKY I was surprised that King Tigers were fighting in the streets of Berlin. I know that it was the 503 heavy tank unit and that there were up to 9 tanks fighting at one point. My question is what colour would they has been painted? Any information on this subject would be most welcome Best regards The tome for his would be Tigers in Combat (I only have TIC2 unfortunately), which gives the dates when the vehicles were acquired by 503. However, I have trawled the material I downloaded from Missing Links over the last few years and found the following data extracted from TIC by various kind souls: "In September of 1944 the battalion received a whole new complement of new Tiger II tanks. Some with the new "ambush" pattern camouflage. Most of the tanks had yellow-olive primer and were covered with green-olive and brown spots. The Balkenkreuz was in the central turret section, the turret numbers initially in front of it. Later, replacement tanks sometimes had different locations of the numbers. These black numbers, about 1/4 of the turret height, had a white outline." Also, for anyone confused, on page #7 of Tigers in Combat #2, regarding SSsPzAbt 103/503: "The Tiger II tanks had the ambush camouflage and most of them a Balkenkreuz in the middle of the turret side. Several tanks of the 1st company were seen with very large turret numbers outlined in black on the middle of the turret side. The majority of tanks had no tactical numbers." As to vehicle issuance: Tigers in Combat #1 identifies the propaganda film stills as being of the sPzAbt 503 in September 1944(page 215). That is the photographic evidence of the ambush scheme being used. According to Wolfgang Schneider, in Tigers in Combat I, sPzAbt 503 received 14 Tiger II tanks (12 P2 turm) at the end of July 1944, 45 Tiger II tanks at the end of September 1944 and 5 Tiger II tanks in the middle of March 1945. By the way, the P2 turm was the turret usually (and incorrectly) known as the "Porsche" turret. The one known as the "Henschel" turret was called the Serien turm. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Kelvin Mok [klmok@home.com] Subject: Twin 40 mm Bofors water-cooled? Are these guns air cooled or water cooled? Recently saw naval twin 40 mm Bofors at Patriots Point in NC being described as water-cooled. While the thickness of the gun barrels could certainly incorporate a water jacket I couldn't find the associated plumbing and radiators that would have recirculated the boiling water the guns would have generated when in action. Kelvin Mok klmok@home.com Not entirely sure that this is a tankie question, but as I have some experience of examining these devices (on the USS Kidd, Alabama and Massachusetts), I will indulge you ;-). Besides, having read your post about the USS North Carolina on SMML, I have an idea what prompted the query. The USN twin and quad Bofors mounts are indeed water-cooled - there are metal tanks mounted at the rear of the loaders' platforms which contain the water and it then travels by pipe to (I think) the top rear of the barrel jackets. The preserved mounts often lack the pipes but the wartime photographs and also the drawings from the handbook (in various books) do show them. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Richard Marks [richard@marks28.freeserve.co.uk] Subject: Syrian Pz IV Hi Rob, According to the Osprey Vanguard - Armour of the Middle East Wars 1948-78 (Steve Zaloga), the Syrians got their Panzer IVs from the French. These were Hs. They were also supplied with a few StuG III and Panzerjager IVs (according to Steve Zaloga it is also rumoured that the Syrians were supplied with a number of Panthers but none were ever reported by the Israelis). The French also supplied the Syrians with Panhard 178b armoured cars. The vehicles were reconditioned WW2 vehicles which probably explains the French markings on the tyres. The Syrians were later "sponsored" by the Russians and got their T-34/85s and SU100s from them. Richard My copy of that book is currently buried at the far end of my modelling room. However, AFV News 36/2 has a piece on one of the ex-Czech Pz.IVs captured at Tel Aziziat on the Golan Heights in 1967, and photographed in 1995. It has a J hull and a reworked D turret, with schurzen. All of this unfortunately gets us no closer to the Spanish vehicles which were the subject of the original query. However, AFV News 36/3 refers to two of the vehicles currently at Latrun in Israel being ex-Spanish examples (not the one referred to above). One is an H, chassis number 84553, one of 20 sold to Spain in 1943. Whilst in Spain, it apparently served in RTCC-61, before being one of 17 sold to Syria in 1964 and then captured in 1967. The fate of the remaining three is not stated. The other supposedly ex-Spanish vehicle there is also an H, chassis number 84683, from the same batch of 20 and which served with RTCC-62. It too was sold in 1964 and captured from Syria in 1967. However, the latter has Czech bins and other Czech features and it is unclear whether (if it was indeed ex-Spanish) how these came to be fitted. Has anyone out there any more information on the subject? Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Paul.middleton [paul.middletonmafva@tesco.net] Subject: British M29 Weasels Hi Bob, Weasel M29 and M29C were used by the British Army in Holland/Germany 1944/45. You need the ISO book "Weasel" by Jeff Woods which has photos of both types in use by 79th Armoured Div and others. No markings seen, and the book quotes "olive green drab for the US forces, or the green of the British Army". The Brit trialled vehicle had white/black (or is it dark green?) Arctic cam. I am sure I have references to issue of Weasels to infantry divs. in NW Europe in early 1945, but it will take a while for me to find them. Maybe it is in one of the Patrick Delaforce books or 43rd Wessex by Essame. Unfortunately of course, the average soldier/writer does not know the difference between the two types unless they mention "Amphibious Weasels". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Mike Cooper [coopmik1@hotmail.com] Subject: British WW1 artillery Dear All Thanks to Bill for the query. The answer is partly straightforward and partly complex. The official 1915 colour was "Service Green". I have a formula for this via Bill Ward, and as far as I can tell the end result is a medium olive or bronze green. I've done some work for Spike comparing this formula with other known ones, and come to the conclusion that whatever it is is a bit lighter than Olive Drab and rather more green. I'd suggest treating it as either a mix of Humbrol 159 and black to match the tone of black and white photo or as WW2 Khaki Green - somewhere in between G3 and G5. I have heard that Beverley [The Museum of Army Transport - Robert] knows about colour called "Mons Brown" but I know nothing more than this, and in the absence of other data have to go with the official instructions. There is a model 9.2" showing a very dark green base in "Firepower", and some guns in the Royal Armouries collection apparently had a khaki-brown paint job early in their lives. The only other markings I've seen associated with an 8-inch Mk I-V are a). one photo of a white saw-toothed counter shading under the barrel and b). unit ID painted in white on the limber. The counter shading appears only in one photo and I've not seen it in France. The 4-colour disruptive I've seen in Mks. VI-VII don't seem to have got onto the I-V. By the way - watch out for the wheels on the BK kit - I've never seen this pattern on an 8 inch. Hope this helps. Would it help if I did a thing for us all on what I know on WW1 colours? Spike and Tankette are in receipt of gen from me on this. I'm afraid its all much less satisfactory than WW2. By the way, the new MAFVA site will shortly be mounting an update of the notes Mike Starmer has done on WW2 British colours. Mike Cooper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Listmaster Subject: Punch and die sets I recently found dimensions for several of the available punch and die sets on the market (Historex, two Waldron and Reheat) and decided that it might be worthwhile to compare the sizes of them, given the not inconsiderable cost of purchasing such kit. The conclusions were interesting, in that Historex,s (which is the most widely available here in the UK), which I think is also the cheapest, had almost the greatest range of sizes. Indeed, to obtain the same overall range with other sets would necessitate purchasing both the Waldron sets, at far higher cost, and the extra range obtained would be 0.15mm (equivalent to 5mm in 1/35 scale) at the small end and 0.064mm(equivalent to 2mm in 1/35 scale) at the larger end. The complete results (with data for the equivalent sizes in 1/35 and 1/76 scales) is contained in an Excel file – if anyone would like a copy, email to rlockie@platosoftware.com and I will send it on. If you know of any other sets (I am only considering the round ones as I can make hex bolts from chopping up Slater,s hexagonal rod or from the Model Kasten sets, or just use round ones on the basis that the difference is barely recognisable), please let me know the sizes and I will incorporate those as well. Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Listmaster Subject: SU-152 questions Can anyone confirm (or provide a steer to photos of) the exhaust stubs on the SU-152 self-propelled gun? My understanding is that the vehicle was based on the hull of the KV-1S and thus might reasonably be expected to have the same design of exhaust. This would seem to be supported by the fact that the KV-85 (or at least a preserved one of which I have seen photographs), which used the KV-1S hull and a new turret, has the same exhausts, which have a fairly long horizontal element to them. However, the only close up photograph I have seen of the SU-152’s exhausts, in issue 24 of the Russian magazine M-Hobby, shows a far more stubby exhaust, with what appears to be a cast shield over the top. The same configuration is shown on the scale plans by Sergei Oreshin in the same issue. Given that I am unlikely to get to see the real thing in the near future and the availability of wartime photos of that area is not exactly great, can anyone advise which is correct or if there were two types? Also, which hatches were used by the commander and gunner? Thanks Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Jon Barker [jon_barkerm113@hotmail.com] Subject: Window cleaning Does anyone know how to get paint off clear plastic? Due to using a spray can without due care and attention I now have an AFV Club M35 truck with an opaque olive drab windscreen. I would like to remove the paint leaving the screen clear if possible as the driver figure has come out better than usual. Painting figures is not one of my strong points and it is Sod's Law that this is the one that will not show; my figures would usually benefit from being hidden. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Jon Barker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Lockie (Think Tank Listmaster) Back issues of Think Tank (thanks to Shane Jenkins) can be found at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/thinktank/thinktank.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume